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“Gay” Men Sleeping with “Lesbian” Women???

Posted by Tony Listi on January 6, 2008

By Ryan Sorba

11
Is Change Possible?

“It’s been a few years since I first heard the word hasbian used to describe a lesbian who had gone back to men.”
(Pro-Sodomy activist, Lyndsy Gelder, Off Our Backs, Dec. 1996 pg. 13)
Pop star Sinead O’Connor shocked the world in June of 2000 when she said, “I’m a lesbian… although I have not been very open about that, and through out most of my life I‘ve gone out with blokes (men) because I haven’t been terribly comfortable about being a lesbian. But I actually am a lesbian.”
Then, O’Conner counter-shocked the pro-sodomy world that had applauded her “coming out” when she withdrew from participating in a “lesbian” music festival because of her marriage to British Press Association reporter, Nick Sommerlad…a man! Sinead O’Connor seems to have genuinely changed her so-called “sexual-orientation” twice, in less than two years.
Similarly, an article appearing in The Advocate, about the now separated couple Ellen Degeneres and Anne Heche states, “Although the couple has never publicly discussed the reason for their break up, it has been heavily rumored that Heche decided to go back to heterosexuality.”
The rumors turned out to be true. Heche married a man on September 1st 2001. The Advocate tells of Heche shocking Oprah Winfrey by proclaiming, “I was not gay before I met her…” (Ellen). This phenomenon causes the writer of the article to ask, “With straights falling for gays, lesbians dating men, and gay men falling in love with women, isn’t anybody anything anymore?” The writer refers to Heche’s feelings as, “fluid sexuality…changing sexuality…the sexuality that causes all sorts of problems in a gay movement in which some spokespeople for years have been insisting that, ‘We’re born this way, we can’t change.'”
These women are not the only ones to change the supposedly “unchangeable.” Bruce Bawer, most famous for his book A Place at the Table admitted to changing his “sexual-orientation” when he told a New York Native reporter that he was “left cold by Bob and Rod, but hot for Catherine Deneuve.”
In his book Breaking the Surface, former Olympic diving champion Greg Louganis, states: “what made things more confusing was that I found girls attractive, I thought that if you were gay girls were supposed to repulse you, but that wasn’t the case, I was sexually involved with one girl from a very early age.”
But falling for a member of the opposite sex can be seen as treason within the pro-sodomy movement, as it was for pro-sodomy author Jan Clausen. When she fell for a man she paid for it. “After 12 years in a lesbian marriage, Jan Clausen fell in love with a man. Since her identities as writer and lesbian were intertwined, all hell broke loose. Clausen’s books are yanked off college reading lists. She loses friends, community, and status. One feels sympathy for a good writer ostracized from the culture she helped create. Leaving a lesbian for a man she muses ‘is still the equivalent of a mortal sin.'”


The second “coming-out,” the coming out of the so-called “gay” lifestyle can be controversial. Pro-sodomy activist Amber Hollibaugh states: “it’s very controversial, to talk about having sex with men” in her book Dyke Life. Not only is the second coming out controversial, ex-“gays” will often face hostility and discrimination. Author Karen Kerner tells us of one previously “gay” woman’s mountain climbing expedition, during which she began an affair with a male climber, “Dave,” and after which she faced rejection.
“When Greta arrived back home, “the climate chilled for more reasons than autumn. As the news of her sexual affair spread (and a former lesbian lover called to confirm the rumor), she “felt suddenly watched, judged. While queers worried about hiding their sexualities in this homophobic little town, my concerns went the other way. I didn’t want the lesbian community I cared about to monitor me holding hands with Dave, laughing with him, having breakfast.”
John Preston, co-author of the book Sister and Brother and one time editor of the pro-sodomy news magazine The Advocate discussed a stumbling block that he once faced, -his fear of being rejected by his peers for revealing that he had once been attracted to two female roommates. Preston reminisces: “We also quickly learned that such thoughts and activities were best kept to ourselves. The gay and lesbian community didn’t want its leaders to be indulging in any exploration of heterosexuality. It was best to put our attractions and our occasional explorations into a new closet.”
Yes, surprisingly, the pro-sodomy community has closets of it own; and the community hides their secret heterosexual escapades and attractions beneath layers of public “born gay” propaganda and lies. They don’t want word to get out that the “born gay” identity is really a fluid social construct. Notice however, how ironically open pro-sodomy activists discuss the changeable nature of sexuality amongst themselves, in their own private publications.
“OUT,” a leading pro-sodomy publication, gives its opinion of the previously mentioned book, Sister and Brother…a book about so-called “gay” men and “lesbian” woman sleeping together: “Compiled by two of our most noted cultural historians; this rich anthology ponders the inextricable and complex bond between lesbians and gay men. In 30 essays by writers both known and new, tales unfold of remarkable friendships that are sometimes adversarial, sometimes romantic, and more than occasionally, sexual.”
The Lambda Book Report, a leading pro-sodomy publication gives its take: “In private, of course, the lives of many gay men and lesbians have always overlapped, as the stories collected in Sister and Brother attest…They have been allies at work, siblings in families, partners in community affairs, business, and parenting. Sometimes, they have been husbands and wives, and occasionally lovers.”
Another pro-sodomy publication, The New York Native, also endorses the book that highlights starkly the changeable nature of sexual desire. The New York Native begins its column on the Lambda Literary Awards with the following caption: “‘Sister and Brother’ sets the tone for seventh annual gay and lesbian book awards.” The column continues, “Inclusiveness was the theme of this year’s Lambda Literary Award winners. Many of the books selected this year defy the breakdown into either gay male or lesbian–or, for that matter, into simple dichotomies of gay and straight. The connections between lesbians and gay men unite other winners. That, in fact, is the theme of Nonfiction Anthology award winner Sister and Brother, edited by Joan Nestle and John Preston…”
Genre, another pro-sodomy publication aimed at men, also gave a positive review: “The late John Preston made something of a specialty of anthologies. His final effort, co-edited with lesbian historian Joan Nestle, is original and an absolute must-read. Sister and Brother…address’s through personal anecdote and memoir the experiences that bind gay men and lesbians together…It is a revelation to see how many gay men and women share complex and abiding relationships.”
The pro-sodomy publication The Advocate is intrigued by one particular “gay”/”lesbian” sexual affair recorded in the book Sister Brother: “These are as unpredictable as the range of gay-lesbian relationships. Bernard Cooper’s story ‘Truth Serum’ is a knockout. A selection from his forth-coming memoirs (and winner of 1995’s O. Henry Award), it portrays his long-lasting heterosexual love affair, which began in the heat of sexual passion and thrives years later as a lifelong friendship. Although Cooper becomes a practicing homosexual, his place, he tells us, remains forever with his friend Bia Lowe.”
Note that The Advocate has no difficulty applying both the terms “heterosexual” and “homosexual” to Bernard Cooper. They understand and accept the fluidity of sexual desire. Analyzing excerpts from Bernard and Bia’s essays will shed further light.
Bia begins, “How can I explain to my mother…How can I tell her, without her thrilling to false hopes, that, having loved a man, having mated with a man, I know I could still? I still find men attractive, and I still recall, with sexual excitement, my escapades into heterosexual sex…”
Bernard, Bia’s supposedly “gay” boyfriend, tells us about the relationship from his perspective, “I’d been living with a woman for three years, a woman whom I loved, and with whom I had a sex life both playful and pleasurable…I’m not sure at which point friendship turned to love-our relationship remained platonic for nearly a year–but I’m sure we would have had sex much earlier if both of us hadn’t harbored longings for people of the same gender…We confided these guilty attractions late one night during a marathon conversation. Once they were aired, our admissions seemed less shameful, less significant, and I began to feel that sleeping with Bia was inevitable; who better to sleep with than the keeper of your secrets? Besides, as a side effect of our heated discussions, her translucent skin and hazel eyes had begun to excite me.
All the reviewers of the leading sodomy magazines knew well the heterosexual content of the supposedly “born gay” men and women’s stories in Preston’s book, and they had no problems with such ideas. The “born gay” propagandists always deny the reality and legitimacy of heterosexual feelings in ex-“gays.” But, notice that no one in the pro-sodomy community questions the heterosexual desires of people that continue to define themselves as “gay,” that is, as being in the circle of the “gay” political party. These propagandists are hypocrites. But worse than that, as political activists, they are shameless, calculating, pathological liars. No matter how many times pro-sodomy propagandists lie, however, so-called “lesbians” and “gays” can and do change their so-called “sexual-orientation.”
After the revelations in the book Sister Brother, what pro-sodomy activist Nan Golden writes in The Advocate is no surprise: “Things are more three-dimensional and less compartmentalized than they once were,” she says “Maybe that has to do with getting older and understanding the ambivalence of things. At the moment I’m actually dating a man. And I’ve known people who were active in ACT UP and were very defined as lesbian or gay but who were secretly sleeping together. I think people are more complicated than those categories. Being gay to me isn’t just who I sleep with, it’s how I live my life.”
Can you imagine these radical ACT UP activists, an organization founded in 1987 by Larry Kramer, a known pederast, at demonstrations screaming, “We’re here, we’re queer, get used to it!” and then going home to their heterosexual relationships–homosexual men having affairs with their so-called “queer” or “lesbian” lovers. What irony. What dishonesty!
OUT magazine tells the story of one ACT UP “queer” man who fell in love with a straight woman. The headline on the front cover makes the announcement:

“HOW QUEER, SHE’S STRIAGHT, HE’S GAY, THEY’RE TOGETHER”

The inside title of the article on page 51 is shocking as well:

“HE KISSED A GIRL; HOW A JOURNEY THROUGH THE HEYDAY OF GAY IDENTITY POLITICS LED TO A STRAIGHT ROMANCE”

OUT magazine provides other interesting information on pro-sodomy author Sara Miles. “SARA MILES, an OUT contributing writer, sheds new light on sexuality this month by exploring the complex relationship between a gay man and his girlfriend. ‘I knew a lot of women who had been lesbians and then got involved with men,’ says Miles, ‘but I didn’t know any gay men involved with women. This man’s story is fascinating…'” OUT recounts the startling story of “Bro” and Lisa:
“Williams ‘Bro’ Broberg first visited New York City in those days, as a tall, gangly 21-year old with a desire to put the world right. Bro was born in Carrolton, Kentucky, to a 16-year-old mother and a 17-year-old father, and he spent a working-class childhood moving back and forth between them and his grandparents. By the time he was 12, Bro decided he was gay; by 16, he was driving at night for hundreds of miles through Kentucky, Ohio, and Indiana, seeking out bars rumored to be queer. ‘I knew something else was out there,’ he says, ‘and my strategy was just to get through high school as quickly as possible so I could find it.’
At Antioch College in Ohio, Bro found his first close gay friends. He translated his restlessness and passion into political meaning, came out to his parents, and started to look beyond the perimeters of his own life. In a work-study semester in which students designed direct-service programs for people with AIDS, Bro became radicalized…
In 1990, Bro dropped out of Antioch and moved to Manhattan to become part of a radical gay community. ACT UP, where decisions were made by consensus and there were no formal leaders, was a perfect place for him to jump in. As it turned out, Bro knew how to plan, mobilize, and execute; he found a calling in the strategic challenges of organizing. ‘Bro was best at the quick and dirty,’ says Esther Kaplan, an early ACT UP activist and now editor at POZ magazine. ‘He had a conspiratorial mind and a lot of creative energy.'”
POZ is a magazine directed mainly at men who have sex with men, who are HIV-positive. According to this magazine Bro found a lover at ACT UP, but there was only one problem…she was a woman.
“At an ACT UP meeting, Bro met photographer Charlie Welch. ‘He was talented, cute, and smart, and we moved in together within a month,’ says Bro. ‘We were together about three years.’
Their relationship became harder to maintain as Bro branched out from ACT UP. He was working as many as 20 hours a day on the campaign to free HIV-positive Haitians at Guantanamo…Bro came home one night and found Charlie strangely calm. ‘I’d missed some party with our friends for the gazillionth time,’ Bro says. ‘Charlie just said, ‘Look, it’s time for us to break up.’ ‘I didn’t want to admit it, but I knew it was true.’
By 1993, Bro had moved into a tiny sublet on Avenue C, and a lawyer he’d met on the Guantanamo case had become his inseparable companion. The two would talk endlessly, leaning in close over toast and eggs at a grimy diner. They’d ride the sweaty local trains to Brooklyn for a meeting, exhausted, embracing, one resting a head on the others shoulder. They’d stay up discussing their organizing strategy until the clubs closed at 4 a.m., fall asleep together on the bed in Bro’s room, then get up again to wheat paste at dawn, along the slowly brightening streets.
‘They were living and breathing for their relationship,’ says Kaplan. ‘It was the intense political comradeship, plus an even more intense emotional connection.’…It was a late November afternoon in 1993 when Bro stumbled out of a Tribeca restaurant to the curb where the lawyer was sitting, head in hands, after a devastating, ugly argument. Bro reached out. He started to cry. In a voice breaking with desire and grief, he’d said what he’d been trying to say for so long. ‘If you were a man,’ Bro told Lisa Daugaard, ‘I’d be with you for the rest of my life.’
The lovers tell the story now, sitting next to each other in a comfortable booth at a café in Seattle’s gay neighborhood. They have been together for five years. Bro is finishing law school at Cornell, where he was president of the LAMBDA Law Students association, while Lisa works in the Seattle public defender’s office, representing homeless and indigent clients.
Gay men and lesbians have always had to wrestle with the question of whom we love and how–with the answer, for a lot of us, defining our identities. For many, it has been possible to finesse the line between preference and orientation…That story became more difficult to manage after last year’s media blitz when ‘ex-gays’ Ann and John Paulk announced their conversion to belief in Christian marriage… Many gays, trying to defend our choices of whom we love, were tempted to draw the lines more strictly between straight and gay: Genuine gays and lesbians never looked back, never felt any attraction to the opposite sex, and never lived with uncertainty.
‘Well, isn’t that convenient for everyone?’ says Bro. ‘There’s just this binary-straight and gay. What do we think we’ll lose if we admit life is complex?'”
So, the vicious attacks by the so-called “gay” community on ex-gays–and on pro-family groups who acknowledge that change is possible in sexuality–was a reaction of denial against the truth–people can change, and gays know that, but fear it. What an admission by activists like “Bro” and Sara Miles! Bro describes his own internal conflict in this process of newly loving a woman.
“Bro’s confession of love that night on the curb made the reality of their feelings ‘unavoidable,’ says Lisa. ‘But it was hugely painful.’ Bro nods. ‘We fell in love,’ he agrees. ‘But there was this huge thing to negotiate, i.e., that I’m gay. It was a long process. I’d deny the attraction, go to the edge of it, peak over, and run back the other way.’
The first kiss is at the center of most romantic narratives, but the moment when Bro and Lisa’s actual sexual relationship began is fairly mundane, overshadowed by all the political and emotional drama that preceded it. ‘I think we were at her parents’ house one night,’ says Bro, ‘and we were sleeping on this fold out bed, and I gave her a kiss, and then we kept going…’
Bro lights another cigarette, remembering how he first began to tell his new friends about his new lover. ‘I used to get angry if people said they were bisexual. Now I had to tell people that, yes, I was gay, and yes, I was in love with a girl.’
Kaplan says she wasn’t surprised. ‘There was a lot of this happening among our circle,’ she says. ‘Women started seeing men; other people, including me, came out as bisexual. And it was threatening: If we were defecting, who’d be left to be gay anymore?'”
Another ACT UP activist, Juan M. Mendez (who has also been a journalist for the Spanish language newspapers El Diario and La Prensa), recalls hearing about Bro’s changes: “Mendez remembers the spring afternoon when he heard Bro’s news. ‘We were on the bus going uptown,’ he says, ‘and I was telling Bro how disappointed I was that a lesbian friend of ours from ACT UP was getting married to a man. I was talking very intimately about how it felt to me to have our whole East Village queer family breaking up.’ Mendez pauses. ‘And then Bro looked at me and said that he was seeing Lisa.'” The interview ends poignantly.
“Lisa speaks. ‘Look,’ she says, ‘life is short, and love is rare.’ Bro takes her hand. ‘The world is complicated,’ Bro says. ‘It just seems like a very bad idea to sell out true love because you don’t ideologically understand how you can be feeling it.'”
Jan Clausen, in an earlier work (Beyond Gay or Straight), speaks to the complexities of human sexual desires. Jim Van Buskirk, who has been the head of the pro-sodomy “Hormel Library,” explains Clausen’s views: “Jan Clausen attempts the nearly impossible by trying to demystify the complexities of human sexuality. She begins her explorations with three basic questions: ‘Is sexual orientation an inborn trait, or does it some how develop in the unfolding of personality? Is it an unchanging characteristic, or one that is liable to shift over time? Is it present in all cultures, even those that appear to organize sexuality quite different from the way we do, or is it simply the way in which certain societies (especially Western, urbanized ones) currently think about personal sexual identity?'”
“Clausen ends with the same questions with which she began, this time allowing her personal perspective. Advocating ‘sensitivity to the diversity of sexuality,’ Clausen suggests that in addition to biological research, researchers need to pay far more attention to the psychology, sociology, and anthropology of gay, lesbian, bisexual, and heterosexual identities. Quoting Gloria Andalzua’s poetic formulation ‘Identity is a River’ she remains unswayed by the possibility that admitting the flexibility of sexual orientation may give ammunition to bigots. Finally, she reminds readers that most cultures have not shared the modern Euro-American sexual system in which people are divided into distinct types based on the gender of their preferred sexual partners. Clausen has knowingly entered into dangerous emotionally charged waters…”
Indeed, pro-sodomy propagandists are strongly fearful of the public expression of such sentiments. However, as we have seen, mentioning this fact in “private” pro-sodomy contexts is acceptable; this truth of “fluid sexuality” cannot be denied.
Frontiers magazine has explored the notion of changeable sexuality through a dialogue between so-called “gay” men and “lesbians.” One woman evaluates this contemporary issue: “In fact, one of the most cutting-edge issues in the gay scene today is that some gay men and lesbians are actually having sex with each other.” “What is that?”…”I heard about this from a friend of mine who went to a workshop on the subject at one of the ‘Creating Change’ conferences. Talk about change!”
“I also know people who have experimented with their best friends. These people are apparently finding themselves curious and attracted and playing with each other to see what they’re missing. I can understand; I mean, curiosity made me try out all those guys in my youth. Who else could heal the pain between men and women better than us queers? We have very few societal models and therefore less pressure to conform. Wouldn’t that be something if enough of us got turned on to the opposite sex and blew the mainstream away by showing them how to love each other equally?…”
One psychiatrist with same-sex attractions tells how he and some of his clients have come to terms with sexual activity between so-called “gay” men and “lesbians.” “Many of my clients are going through a second coming out…Lorna, a 41-year-old African American client, came to see me because she had been out as a lesbian for almost a decade, but now she was having a sexual relationship with a gay friend. ‘Not an in-love relationship,’ she told me. ‘We just like to fool around.’ Her friends were scandalized. Lorna was not coming out as bisexual, according to her own definition. She still considered herself a lesbian…she needed strategies for figuring out where her community might be now that she was facing rejection by lesbians…she needed time to talk through her pain at having to experience it in the gay lesbian community, a place she had fought to make her home.”
Two pages later the author continues, “Back in the 60s and 70s, coming out meant making a break from heterosexuality. But in the late 1990s, we are now witnessing a break from gayness and lesbianism. Many lesbians I know talk about lesbian therapist JoAnne Loulan, author of Lesbian Sex and Lesbian Passion, who a year ago went on the Oprah Show and revealed that her new partner is a man. Their confusion and discomfort with Loulan and other lesbians’ seeming defection is not surprising. What do we make of people like Lorna, who want to be lesbians who sleep with men? How do we understand the many gay men who have been out for years and then decide to marry women? The new wave of coming out almost looks like a going back in. A growing number of gay men and lesbians are marrying one another. It’s as if we’re seeing a challenge to the old, modernist way of thinking: ‘This is who I am, period,’ and a movement toward a post-modern version, ‘This is who I am right now.'”
Diva, a British pro-sodomy magazine directed at woman contained a long article on this phenomenon in its June, 1996 issue. The article was entitled ALL IN THE FAMILY? and carried the byline, “What do you call a lesbian who sleeps with men? Straight? Bisexual? Lesbian? Hasbian? Gillian Rodgerson examines the complicated business of sexual liaisons.”
“As long ago as 1983, Pat Califia wrote a cover piece for The Advocate about a subject that, at the time, most lesbians I knew dismissed as just another weird U.S. fad: gay men and gay women having sex together. Only in San Francisco, we thought, figuring that if you really want to be a pervert, you’ll break any taboo just to stay on the wild side. But when queer politics hit Britain in a big way in the early nineties, lots of previously water-tight categories began to ooze and the mind bending business of utopian pan-sexuality opened-up like some glittering Pandora’s Box. Rumors have always circulated that this or that well-known queer dyke was really sleeping with this or that well-known queer gay man on the side.”
Note that as long ago as 1983, a cover article in The Advocate was written on sex between so-called “gay” men and “lesbian” woman. This is not a new phenomenon. It has been discussed openly in the so-called “gay” community as long as there has been a “gay” community, which is not very long in fact, at all. Notice also the use of the word “hasbian.” This fact of sexual change is so common and so well-known that it is discussed worldwide and there are nicknames to refer to defectors.
Diva magazine continues the stories: “Nevertheless, some women whose previous sexual attachments focused on other women are now talking about their activities with men, both as isolated experiences and as more long-term relationships. Cath from Manchester remembers being ‘terribly embarrassed to be seen in public holding a man’s hand…She explains the confusion she felt at that time. ‘When I met my girlfriend at 21, I defined myself completely as a lesbian, but when she went off with someone else I met this man bloke and found myself falling for him, totally out of the blue. I used to think ‘this is ridiculous, I’m a lesbian!'”
“The experience of Lucy Scher, a club promoter in Manchester, was less accidental and more thorough than Cath’s. She says she knows the scene and says ‘hundreds’ of women who previously defined themselves as dykes are now experimenting with sex with men. She doesn’t identify as a lesbian, preferring the term ‘queer,’ but her boyfriend still thinks of himself as gay. They both left same-sex partners when they got together, though Lucy had had other recent experiences with men. When a powerful businessman made a pass at her one night, knowing she was a lesbian, she accepted it. ‘If there’s someone you shouldn’t sleep with, I do,’ she says, not especially ruefully… the experience ‘split me and my girlfriend and got me interested in boys again…
So what’s the difference between Lucy and her boyfriend and any other straight couple treading the streets of Manchester holding hands? ‘I’ve walked down the street holding hands, thinking ‘My God, I’m normal…’ Heterosexuals never have those thoughts, because they’ve never experienced anything else.'”
Lisa Power, a long time lesbian activist who happily admits to a sexual affair with a gay male friend, says she still ‘absolutely’ identifies herself as a dyke and doesn’t believe her experience is all that unique. ‘It’s great to be tedious telling the truth about lesbians having sex with men,’ she notes, saying it’s the only piece of gossip anyone relays about her anymore. ‘I thought gay liberation was about getting people to be less freaked out about who you slept with,’ she says.”
Robin Gorna, of the British organization Terrence Terrance Higgins Trust, wrote the book, Vamps, Virgins and Victims: How Women Can Fight AIDS. She openly cites statistics, obtained at London’s Audre Lorde Clinic which, “revealed that 35 percent of the lesbian clients had had sex with men in the last six month’s.”
In 1995, a Newsweek cover story reported on a survey conducted by self-identified “lesbian” Paula Rust, who found that two-thirds of women who self-identified as lesbian, also said that they were currently attracted to men, and 90 percent of them had been in a sexual relationships with a man.
Peering deeper into the second secret closet of the “lesbian” community, we find studies revealing that supposedly exclusively “lesbian” women will, on average, have more male sex partners throughout their lifetime than all other woman will. In fact, a study appearing in The Washington Blade showed that the average self-described “lesbian,” will have double the number of lifetime male sex partners than all other women will.
Perhaps it was such facts that caused the British pro-sodomy movement magazine Rouge to concur with the “choice” idea: “Green’s analysis of homosexuality rejects the view that it is inborn-our only point of agreement …”
Perhaps it was such facts that caused The Advocate to report (after a 1997 volunteer poll of its readers) that 54 percent of its own respondents did not believe in a fixed sexual orientation. Perhaps it was such facts that caused self-defined “lesbian” author Rebecca Walker, daughter of the self-defined “bisexual” author Alice Walker, who wrote The Color Purple, to write, “I do my best to help people understand that sexuality doesn’t have much to do with prescribed notions of gender…But that gets back to the question of ‘What is a lesbian?’ Because you look at studies now, and obviously lesbians are sleeping with men. I think we are beating our heads against these categories right now.”
Later, the article in which Walker’s quote appeared, reinforces her observation, “two studies of lesbians have been conducted from 1978 through 1989 and found that between 74% and 81% had engaged at some point in heterosexual intercourse, the…unified safe-and-secure ‘lesbian community’ begins to look like one big bisexual closet.”

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22 Responses to ““Gay” Men Sleeping with “Lesbian” Women???”

  1. Ruminant said

    I have been searching online for resources on lesbian women who fall in love with gay men. It has come up pretty short most of the time and I thought your article is a god-send, no pun intended.

    I am pretty butch as a woman and I prefer gay porn to lesbian porn. I have been in lesbian relationships all my life. After my last relationship of five and a half years ended early this year, I was looking around for female companionship on lesbian portals and within the lesbian community. I started hanging out with a gay male friend and gradually we got closer and I found myself falling for him. It didnt feel weird, I thought of myself as a man when I did.

    I was however a frustrating experience as he was defintely gay and would never want to start a romantic relationship with me. For me, it was an experience of absolute love regardless of gender/ sex or politics. It felt right and so it was.

    Will gender issues transcend to a stage like this soon, I wonder? When gender doesnt matter and what you feel is whatever is true.

    Maybe to explain further, Ive always thought myself born a man in the wrong body. However, over time, I’ve learnt to accept myself as lesbian because of the way I felt towards women all my life. I look like man, behave like a man but also now identify as lesbian. These feelings towards my gay friend has kinda thrown things into a new perspective for me.

    I do hope that more resources on this topic surfaces…it’s kinda lonely in the grey area.

  2. foospro86 said

    Ruminant, I think you are a very confused and lost person. I highly encourage to stop looking at porn. I beg you to try and develop some discipline over your sexual urges and seek out help and Christian counseling. Seek out God and his purpose for you.

  3. allround said

    I believe it’s called loving a humane being you are attracted to…looking beyond gender. Nothing the matter with that. Chemistry is Chemistry.

  4. Italiana said

    So some people are bisexual…what’s your point? The “gay” community is not monolithic in thought or behavior and neither is the straight community. Kinsey’s reseach in the 50’s spoke extensively of a spectrum of sexual attractions. It is the insistence of binary thinkers (like yourself) that people “pick a side” that causes problems. The real issue is encouraging respectful sexual behavior — whether heterosexual or homosexual.The histrionic language used throughout your post (“pro-sodomite” seriously?) indicates some big fears on your part. I encourage you to pray and meditate on what’s behind this fear and ask God for healing.

  5. foospro86 said

    LOL, yes, I, who uphold traditional Judeo-Christian sexual mores, need to “ask God for healing” because of my “big fears”! Sodomy is a biblical term. (I am not Ryan Sorba, btw. I just posted his thoughts.)

    Tell me what constitutes “respectful sexual behavior.” You use the phrase as if if was just obvious what that was. Somehow I get the feeling “respect” to you means “if it feels good, do it.”

    Kinsey was a deceitful pervert. The guy did sexual experiments on infants! And he based his conclusions about homosexuality based on a sample of prisoners! His work is worthless. Get the facts.

  6. iitefaq_alam said

    yes there is nothing unsual or extraordinary in lesbians having sex with gay men. unfortunately we are having gay fundamantalist between us just like religious fundamantalist. i am male to female transgender gay. that is mentally i am lesbian women but physically i am a man. now all lesbians of my country (INDIA) hate me and consider me as an straight impersonator. i ask them when normal people can be gay then why can”nt a transgender can also be a gay. but fundamantalism of GLBT community in mind bollging

  7. [...] “Gay” Men Sleeping with “Lesbian” Women??? « Conservative Colloquium [...]

  8. KevKev said

    In response to article, ummm… they’re called BISEXUAL, hello! Bisexuals are awesome, and we make up the majority in the world. It is only cultural pressure that forces us to choose one side or the other in the sexuality spectrum. So people calling themselves straight or calling themselves gay nonetheless retain some attraction to both sexes. Welcome to the real world!

  9. foospro86 said

    Um, so are you saying that ppl aren’t actually born gay or straight?

  10. i believe gay or str8, g-d luvs u

    • foospro86 said

      God loves everyone. But he hates our sins. Homosexual behavior is a sin.

      • JJ Sampson said

        you’re so full of shit Foospro86.

        so so so so full of shit.

        the greatest sin is judging your neighbor before judging yourself. you’re so afraid of yourself you’re judging everybody else.

        i believe in nature. i believe in love.

        i believe in the magic that happens when two people love each other, are free, and don’t hurt others.

        your attitude hurts children by causing hundreds of thousands of kids growing up and feeling gay feelings to hate themselves and become depressed, maybe even commit suicide, be subject to abuse at the hands of other children with parents that are assholes like you.

        fuck you

      • Tony Listi said

        How loving and tolerant of you, JJ! Remind me again, who is the one filled with hate for others? “you’re so full of shit Foospro86. so so so so full of shit…. assholes like you. fuck you”

        And how do you know that I’ve been “judging your neighbor before judging yourself”? How on earth could you possibly know whether I’ve judged myself or not? Seems like you are the one who is being very judgmental here.

        I do not judge people with same-sex attraction merely because they have such involuntary, abnormal sexual urges. But I do know that all sexual behavior is freely chosen, regardless of one’s urges. And homosexual behavior is unhealthy and harmful to those who engage in it. It is often accompanied by a very self-centered, rather than self-giving, approach to sexuality and sexual behavior.

        Nature? Have you looked at the human body? Do you know what the male and female body look like and what they do naturally? It’s quite clear what our sexual organs were naturally meant for, just as it’s quite natural that human beings were not meant to eat sand or glass.

        Love? What is love? A selfish seeking for self-satisfaction of sensual desires that uses other people contrary to their dignity and bodily nature as male or female?

        No, just because homosexual behavior is abnormal, perverse, and wrong, does not mean that people with same-sex attraction should hate themselves anymore than anyone else who has an abnormal and unhealthy physiological condition. No one says that the sick should hate themselves because they are sick.

        You just don’t understand the love that I and other Christians have for those with same-sex attraction. You don’t even know me. It’s not wise or loving to be so judgmental against someone you don’t even know.

      • Intensity in Ten Cities said

        Homosexual behavior is not a sin! It doesn’t affect anyone but the TWO people involved. You can “SIN” your whole life and it won’t make a damn bit of difference.

      • Tony Listi said

        I don’t see how the behavior involving only two people means that it is not a sin. That doesn’t logically follow. When one person harms another person, only two people are directly involved, but that doesn’t change the harm. And it is a harmful behavior; one need only look at the medical consequences to see it: http://www.catholiceducation.org/articles/homosexuality/ho0075.html#05

  11. “Sodomy” is not a biblical term, but a construct of medieval monks. The city of Sodom was a place where the wicked inhabitants threatened to break down the door of Lot’s home in order to rape an angel. It would be one thing to call the behavior of these would-be angel rapists “Sodomy,” but to apply it to consensual homosexual conduct is simply a regurgitation of the medieval argument, and not supported by biblical text.

    I think its use undermines some very good points in the above piece. It also makes it much easier for gay activists who believe in the “born that way” argument to roll their eyes in dismissal. I don’t know what Ryan Sorba’s goal was, but instead of being persuasive, the piece comes across as preaching to the choir.

  12. Emma said

    I’m not religious, so I can’t relate to that. Those dogmas, those axioms are foreign to me and I can’t comprehend a though process constructed around them. But, mate, really? You bring examples of exactly how complicated of a thing human sexuality is, how the certainties of a lifetime can fade in one day, how what we call love can pull you in all unexpected directions to support some unilateral anti-gay claim? These two things just don’t go together.
    I think people like you and the ‘bisexuality doesn’t exist’ gay activists types have much, much more in common than you think: you pick and choose out of reality in order to support the beliefs about life you hold dear, the beliefs that make you feel safe.
    I don’t know if people are born gay; I obviously don’t. The scientific community doesn’t, how could I? If I were to find an answer I would say that I don’t think self-described homosexuals or people who have homosexual behaviours are all the same. Just like everyone else they are who they are, they got to a certain place, in different ways, through different paths. Some may just naturally, happily, be in the world as the thing they feel they are; some may desperately need a label, any label because otherwise they’d be lost, some, possibly, could hold a behaviour symptomatic of something else. Others, perhaps, are just so narcissistic that an anatomy similar to theirs is next best thing to only ever loving themselves.
    I don’t know, it’s just theories, possibly wrong ones, but the claim to know the truth about someone else’s identity is not just ridiculous, dear, it’s extremely violent.
    And this is coming from someone who got here, to your website, because she’s home goggling the phrase “relationships between gay men and straight women” on a friday night. You can imagine the story here; if I could pick a truth, right now, despite my political beliefs, I’d pick yours. But I can’t, because a I know better than to make reality into what I wish it’s be. I’ll keep my doubts, they’re probably much healthier tan your certainties.
    Plus, I’m afraid you don’t really know what sodomy means.

  13. Break free from the affair…

    [...]“Gay” Men Sleeping with “Lesbian” Women??? « Conservative Colloquium[...]…

  14. hah said

    I am still Gay Male not yet married however i do not mind if my Lesbian wife likes Females, however i will mind if she is sexually attracted to Males.

  15. tony said

    Sexual orientation is a programme in the subconscious mind. The same-sex attraction syndrome is also a programme. Hypnotherapy can delete any unwanted programme in the subconscious. Soon human beings will be able to control their sexual orientation using scientific methods rather than relying on religion. All gays and lesbians will have the opportunity to use sexual orientation technology
    to delete same sex attraction and replace it with opposite sex attraction if they choose to do so.

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