Conservative Colloquium

An Intellectual Forum for All Things Conservative

Can Homosexuals Be Saved by Faith Alone?

Posted by Tony Listi on March 18, 2008

I wonder if looking at the issue of sola fide from the perspective of homosexuality will foster a different type of discussion than usually happens.

So, I ask you, my Protestant friends, evangelicals and those of the more conservative and traditional denominations (yes, tradition…): can a practicing homosexual (i.e. engages in acts of sodomy; not merely has feelings or urges) be saved by faith alone? Can this person’s mere mental assent to Jesus’ divinity and sacrifice secure salvation despite this sinful behavior, which is an “abomination” according to Scripture?

I should probably say no more and wait for responses.

Advertisements

26 Responses to “Can Homosexuals Be Saved by Faith Alone?”

  1. JB76 said

    If you believe the conservative and traditional Christian scripture, then the answer to your question is obviously “yes”. Jesus saves. All sin is forgivable when repented. At least that is the Southern Baptist view.

    It is worth noting that Jesus, who made a new covenant with man, made no mention of homosexuals. I don’t think he cares about sexuality as much as some people want to think that he does.

  2. foospro86 said

    All sin except blasphemy against the Holy Spirit (w/e that means) can be forgiven. But that is completely beside the point.

    I asked if the “faith” of a practicing homosexual saves them. Please focus on this question. The target is sola fide, not homosexuality.

    Jesus makes no explicit mention of homosexuals, true. But it is quite clear that Jesus upheld the sexual mores of Jewish tradition and Scripture. All sin is serious business.

  3. foospro86 said

    Besides, here is what St. Paul says, “Do you not know that the unjust will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators nor idolaters nor adulterers nor boy prostitutes nor sodomites nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor robbers will inherit the kingdom of God” (1 Cor 6:9-11).

    • Cinciigirl said

      You only put part of 1 Cor on here. Here is what comes after 1 Cor 6:10 –
      And this is what some of you used to be. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God. 1 Cor 6:11
      See now this is what people do with the Bible…they take out one part of the reading and leave out the rest. It changes the meaning when one does this.

      • foospro86 said

        I said A PRACTICING HOMOSEXUAL. So “And this is what some of you used to be” does NOT apply to the question I’m asking.
        I’m not taking the verse out of context at all.

  4. craig said

    Romans 1:28 “And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient”

    So the Short answer is “NO” A Faggot can not be saved. By Creating their own God, they have affectivley commited Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. It’s not that God won’t save them if they ask. And by the way, salvation is a free gift. Romans 5:8 “Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.” It has nothing to do with giving up sins. But A Faggot has blantantly and directly rejected the Holy spirit. There is no other way to be saved. God will never bother again to tempt this person to salvation by means of the Holy spirit. Therefore this person will never ask for salvation. It’s no use. You go and try and bring a flaming homosexual to Salvation. It can never happen. Your wasting your time. It’s true that some people practise homosexuality that can still be saved, but I guarantee you these people are doing it consciensly against God’s Will. They are probably too ashamed to come out of the closet anyway, so to speak. They know it’s wrong. God hasn’t yet given them up. But most Homo’s are already long gone. There are 3 stories in the bible about Homosexuals, and every single time the Fag had taken or tried to take somebody sexually against their will. All Faggots are Sexual predators. Don’t beleive me, Read the Bible. Ask your self if you would leave your child in the care of a Faggot. If the Government had perfect Laws, All Homosexuals would be put to death.

  5. foospro86 said

    I don’t think God ever gives up on anybody. We give up on Him.

    I don’t think all homosexuals are sexual predators, though they probably tend to be. If you can’t control your urges, whether hetero or homo, then bad things happen….

    I don’t think that homosexuals should be put to death. “He who is without sin cast the first stone.” If Jesus can revoke the death penalty for an adulteress, then I say we are quite justified in tolerating homosexuals, even as we condemn their actions and continue to call them to Christ.

  6. foospro86 said

    Sure salvation is a free gift, in some sense. But it is actually not that free; you pay for it with your life. You must give up your life to Jesus in a real, living way. You cannot believe in him as the demons do and then do as the demons do. Sola fide is a sham just as Scripture says (book of James). We can’t earn our salvation, and yet we must live our lives as if we could.

  7. Craig said

    Salvation you don’t give up anything, else you are calling God a lier. You should give up sin after salvation, but the only requirement for salvation is “Beleive”. No matter how much Sin you commit, God will never leave you or forsake you once saved. Psalm 37:28 and Psalm 89:29-33 God will not Lie. He will Beat us with the Rod if we Sin, but he will never leave us. God does not Lie. Many times God calls salvation a Gift. Don’t beleive me, Beleive god or Go to hell. It’s your choice. Try and work your way to heaven and go to Hell, (Matthew 7:23) or beleive God and accept his Free Gift. God either Never knew you (Not used to know you) or he will aways know you. That’s how much he loves you, He made salvation Free because Man has no chance. I’ve nothing to lose by beleiving God, You have Everything to lose by calling God a lier. Homosexuals should be put to death under God’s Law. Please read your bible and choose to beleive God. It’s in Leviticus. Jesus never revoked the Death Penalty, but you and I and even Jesus (while he was on the earth) have not the right to Kill somebody. The Jews were no longer living under God’s Governmetal Laws at that time, They were living under Roman Law, and the Roman Law didn’t provide for Jews to Kill anybody. John 18:31. It was unlawful for a Jew to put somebody to death. Remember they were trying to find something to accuse jesus of. Read John 18:31. If he had of stoned her he would have been put to death by the Romans. It’s not God who abolished the Death Penalty, the governments of the world have. Find one verse where God revoked it. You can not. Especially for Murder, God said a murderer should be put to death because we are made in the image of God. God cannot and will not ever abolish that law, because the fact we are made in God’s image can not and will not ever change that Law, else He would be a lier. It’s the governments that choose to make their own laws, not Jesus. It’s evil governments that send people to Jail, But God’s Governmental Laws were instant punishment (Repayments for stealing, Beatings etc..) and then total forgiveness, or in the Case of Faggotism and Murder etc,, Death. Read the Bible and then call God a lier.

  8. jack said

    jeeze
    this is just one reason why I am not religious! what a loving religion christianity must be. Merry Christmas!

  9. foospro86 said

    Christmas in March?

    Jack, if you’re not a Christian, then you likely have no idea what we are talking and thus are not in a position to judge. Christian love requires obedience to God, whom we should love above all things.

  10. jack said

    the merry christmas was me being playful and ironic.

    I am in a position to judge christians by what they say, just as you are in a position to judge me by what I say!

    This hate spouted by “craig” is something I will continue to judge, and stand against, until I die.

  11. foospro86 said

    Understanding must come before judgment. Jack, if you don’t understand the Christian concepts of sin, salvation, heaven, hell, etc., then you are in no position to judge.

    Course, Protestants like Craig, who have received a false Christian tradition or make up their own religion as they go along based on their own private, subjective interpretations of Scripture, are hardly in a better position to judge either.

  12. jack said

    How do you know I don’t understand?? Working with that logic, I could argue – if you are not gay yourself, and thus do not understand what it is like to be in love with someone of your won sex, you are in no position to judge gay people. YET, you will continue to judge us, because you know your concepts that you want to believe as being true.

    Sorry, we all judge others, judgements coming from both knowledge and ignorance. I am perfectly entitled to judge the concepts of sin/heaven/hell etc as I wish, knowing how such concepts have affected the lives of billions of people throughout history.

  13. foospro86 said

    I didn’t say I know you don’t understand. I said it is “likely,” based on what I know from our past online discussions.

    I and everyone else knows what it is like to have sexual urges. Only a corpse doesn’t know what it is like to have sexual urges or attractions. Thus we can all know exactly what it is like to be gay.
    Do you know what it is like to resist sexual urges based on adherence to moral principle?

    No one can stop you from judging anything as you wish. But if you really don’t understand what you’re judging, you and no one else has any reason to believe your judgments are accurate and sound.

    Such concepts ground morality. If what we do here on earth has no significance for an existence after death, then I see no reason not to (in the words of Martin Luther) sin boldly and gain whatever we can for ourselves, moral principles be damned.

  14. jan brandt said

    Yes, they can be saved, only because to have faith means you act on whatever you have faith in. That is to say, if you have faith that a chair can support you, your actions will prove that faith. If you do not sit in the chair you do not have faith but are just mouthing empty words.
    Similarly, if anyone has faith in The Lord Jesus Christ, they will do what He requires and not continue in the myriad of possible sinful ways that they once were involved in.
    Jack, you can live any lifestyle you like but it is not any human who made the rules, a real, living God made them, and it is to Him who you must (and will) answer, not any human.

  15. foospro86 said

    I like your conception of faith, Jan. It is the Catholic conception that recognizes that obedience is an integral part of faith. You deviate from some Protestants, including Martin Luther, who believe that one may sin boldly yet still be saved by faith.

  16. jack said

    It’s always sex tho isn’t it, with you guys. What I am talking about is the joy of love and a happy life with someone you love. I have resisted many a sexual urge. On moral principal – yes that too. I do not just try to sleep with anyone I find attractive – they may be in a relationship, I may feel they are too young (no I’m not a pedophile before anyone makes that assumption) or whatever reason. I think, aswell as act on my desires.

    The fact that you see no reason to behave well other than to obey a God shows me how you must need something to obey in order to act well. If there was no God, would you really find youself murdering and raping anything you wanted to? I wouldn’t. I don’t want to live in a world where such actions are ok, and neither do you. With or without a God. Why? Because we wouldn’t be here – having this discussion – if such actions were ok because we would probably be savages in the woods still. What kind of world would this be without a comon consensus on certain actions?

    I find it hard to communicate a religion-less view of the world to you because you have such strict ideas of what love can and must be. It must be love as defined by what you see as love. My happiness if fruitless if it isn’t happiness gained from another person you deem acceptable. If God exists (and I’m sure a God does exist in some form incomprehensible to any human) then my joy of loving is not a sin to it. If obedience to your God feels so alien to me, so against the grain of my soul, so upstream from what feels right and purposful, then surely this is not a God that created me. For if God is the only thing to exist before the universe, then God created the universe (and thus us) from him – for what else could he create the universe from? God is therefore in us. God created contrast in this world. A contrast where to follow YOUR stream, go with the grain of your soul means to worship at the Catholic alter. Good for you. For me, following my stream is to love the man I love and be in awe of the wonder and mystery of life that can’t be fixed in a book – no matter how impressive in its philosophy. They are different perspectives and opinions in a world created with contrast where not one way of doing things can possibly be right for everyone. I am glad that your religion at least enables you to have respect for people, allow discussions on this forum and defend peoples rights to be even if you disagree. If that is truely the Catholic way then I wish people like Craig (and the Pope) could be like that. Sadly they aren’t.

  17. foospro86 said

    No, it isn’t “always sex” with us. It is always sex with moral relativists and leftists who idolize sex in order to shield it from moral scrutiny. It is they who cannot conceive of love without sexual desire and indulgence.

    There is absolutely nothing wrong with people of the same sex loving each other. But there is something wrong with sexual acts between people of the same sex. There is something wrong with erotic and sexual love between people of the same sex. Just because you feel sexual attraction and urges for someone of the same sex doesn’t mean that acting upon such actions and urges is morally right.
    Would you make the sexual impulse into a god? That is really what is at the heart of this debate about homosexuality.

    It is somewhat silly to talk about the hypothetical of if God did not exist, as I’ll demonstrate presently:
    No, if God did not exist, I probably would not be a very vicious person. I would appeal to abstract ideas of Good, Truth, Justice, etc.
    Yet at the same time, how can I be sure that human beings would have any notion of such ideas unless God (who is Love, the Way, the Truth, and the Life) really existed? Or moreover, how could I be sure that such ideas were real rather than mere abstract figments of human imaginations? Thus this hypothetical really devolves into nonsense.

    You see, we are rational beings and there is no rational reason to believe in morality and adhere to it in a Godless world. You can’t rationally prove what is right or wrong. It is a matter of faith. The mores of a society are rooted in its religious faith. Hack at the roots and every branch comes tumbling down. Maybe not all at once. Even a dead tree can stand erect for awhile, but when the storm and crisis comes, it will fall. The West can only live so long upon the Christian inheritance that it is increasingly rejecting. Rationalism will steadily uproot every last religious sentiment and thus moral sentiment as well. Only a matter of time. You may reject the logical implications of your own philosophy, but overtime new generations will connect the dots to their own destruction.

    “Common consensus” is not stable or reliable for long without religious conviction (nor if the consensus itself is fundamentally wrong).

    You cannot separate happiness from morality.
    God created you for obedience to Him, not so you can fulfill your own private desires apart from His will. He created you with free will to choose whether to act or not are certain urges and desires. You are free to choose, and with His grace and help, you can choose to do the right thing, to obey Him. Love is freely choosing to do the Good.

    Yes, God created different things. There is diversity in Creation. But that doesn’t mean that everything is good. God created us with purpose, with common natural desires and impulses including the sexual drive. They are all good. But sin and evil is always a perversion of what God created good. Gluttony is a perversion of the natural human desire to eat and drink. Sloth is a perversion of the desire to relax and rest. Envy and Greed are perversions of healthy ambition and acquisition. And so on.
    Lust and sodomy are perversions of the sexual libido, which is to be acted on with someone of the opposite sex within the institution of marriage.

    Hate the sin not the sinner is a Christian concept. It commands all Christians to love sinners as Christ did, to respect them as children of the Father. He has told us to put our stones away. But Jesus also told sinners to sin no more, and so we Christians cannot neglect to call all away from sin as well. This is not easy, but we Christians must do it. Likewise, the Pope respects all people but cannot shirk his duty to guide and add to Christ’s flock. And unlike some Protestant sects, addition to the flock cannot come at the expense of correct guidance.

  18. Dude said

    Lust has nothing to do with homosexuality. Would Jesus really disaprove of homosexuals within a loving and commited relationship? Would Jesus not be for everyone expressing their individuality?

    As for sodomy… Why is the prostate gland only accesable through the anus? Why isn’t the anus in a different configuration, if God didn’t want us to —–?

    • foospro86 said

      Dude, lust has everything to do with homosexuality. Lust is “The inordinate craving for, or indulgence of, the carnal pleasure which is experienced in the human organs of generation.”
      http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/09438a.htm

      There is no such thing as “love” in a homosexual relationship. One cannot separate love from morality.

      And Jesus does NOT want “everyone expressing their individuality.” He wants us to love him and obey him. He wants us to give up of individuality and conform our will to his. This is very clear in the Bible.

      Dude, you are messed up. CLEARLY God approves of homosexual behavior because the prostate is where it is. That’s CLEARLY the function of the prostate. Ridiculous.
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostate#Function

  19. bambam said

    i’m still gay, i’m still looking for an answer why. i totally completely believe in christ, that he rose from the dead. i am doing my very best to rely on Him alone. i do not have sex anymore, but i have thoughts. i want so bad to not have these thoughts. i want to go to heaven so bad. i like jesus, and i love jesus. i am having a tough time right now. i am absolutely 100% certain god can make me straight. but he has not yet. i suspect that making me perfect and sinless in this life is not god’s goal. the goal is to aim in that direction and go as far as i can, or rather for jesus and me to go as far as we can together, but there is a chasm that i cannot cross, only jesus can take me across it to perfect sinless heaven. on the outside, i probably look like the nicest kindest gentlest and most ‘christian’ person you will meet. i truly love people with all my heart and those who have hurt me i pray with all my heart for god to soften their hearts. sometimes i think i am only alive just to pray for people. i have loved people with all my being. i have loved christ with all my being. but i will admit not 100% of the time. and sometimes not 100% of my being. actually i probably never have done anything with 100% of my ability and 100% correct and 100% real. i hate these flaws, they are really embarrassing and shameful. i believe if i were 100% heterosexual i would still be a man whore and greedy and full of pride. but please pray for me. there is not one thing i can do to save myself, only christ can save me. i have prayed and i believe and i try and fail but i try to follow christ. i do not try to so i can get saved, i try to do so because god says i am saved already. but why am i still a homo? it’s very hard not to just be a hermit and move out into the desert and stay there without internet or electricity and just spend my days reading the bible and growing vegetables for my food. can i be both gay and saved? it will be such a relief when i am in heaven, and i pray i am going. sometimes i get really scared though, as if i were cursed before time began.

    • foospro86 said

      Thank you for sharing your very personal experiences.

      God can indeed remove the homosexual urges from your body, if it be His will. Continue to pray that He may. For Jesus is the Great Healer and nothing is impossible for God.

      However, consider the possibility that He may never remove these urges from you in this life. That is quite likely considering the empirical evidence on homosexual rehabilitation. Sexual urges are very strong and very ingrained early on, it seems.

      If this be the case, do not despair! Be not afraid, for Jesus is stronger! And He has revealed to us that the lot of the Christian in this world is to suffer, to carry his own cross and follow Him. Each Christian has their own cross (maybe many) to bear. Sometimes it is a struggle with a deadly vice: malice, lust, greed, envy, pride, sloth, and gluttony. And though we pray to have these crosses lifted from our backs, often God sees fit not to do so. Why? Because it is precisely through suffering that we learn in the deepest way to rely on Him, to love Him above all things, above even our own interests and deepest desires.

      The Christian is not cursed; he is crossed! And it is through these crosses that we may be purified for holiness and draw closer to Him. Just as Jesus offers us salvation through His cross, our crosses can be a means to our own salvation. So rejoice in your predestined cross! Let us unite our crosses to His for the sake of His glory and the eternal destiny of our souls!

      If these homosexual urges are indeed your life-long cross, then humbly accept it, saying, “Not my will but yours be done.” In this case, you are called to be a eunuch for the sake of the kingdom of God. No one is any less human or of any less dignity because he abstains from sexual behavior. Quite the opposite! It is a greater gift, a greater virtue, to proclaim the kingdom to come by transcending sexuality in this world.

      Do not be ashamed or embarrassed over urges you do not consciously initiate! By Christ’s grace and strength, you are in control of your actions. You can overcome all desires and urges that do not conform to His will. Cling to Him in faith and He will not fail you. Your urges alone cannot damn you.

      The only thing worthy of shame and guilt is deliberate mental indulgence in and actually acting upon homosexual urges. And God forbid, if you choose to fall from grace with these sins, you can and must sincerely confess, repent, and be reconciled to Our Lord Jesus again, whenever you sin. There is no forgiveness without this process for each sin. No sexual sin is unforgivable, and His endless mercy is always there for the truly repentant.

      I myself have struggled and continue to struggle with lust and temptation, sometimes failing and needing reconciliation. It is hard to imagine a male who doesn’t. So I know what it feels like, if not in exactly the same way. You can become stronger with each struggle. You are not alone in your struggle. Innumerable fellow brothers and sisters in Christ in this world and the next are praying for you. Mary the Mother of God and the whole choirs of saints and angels, who have gone before us and remain in Jesus and He in them, will intercede on your behalf, if you but ask them in faith. Here and now in this world, while becoming a hermit is a possibility, I’d encourage you to surround yourself with chaste brothers and sisters by joining a community and a church that accepts you and your cross but not your sins and that will help you bear your cross in holy chastity.

      I cannot help but think that the reward in heaven for a person like you, if you do persevere to the end during these perverted modern times, will be very great. My heartfelt prayers are with you. Let me know if I can ever be of any assistance to you. May God bless and strengthen you in your spiritual journey home to Him.

      • gel said

        yeah.I’m a homosexual but I’m a Christian. These urges of mine are so stressful sometimes I cant control them, and my thoughts become filthy,I read lewd materials (which I almost never do since I became a Christian). sometimes, a put my hands on places I shouldn’t (on other womens’ bodies) but I repent and I fear. And I resist and everyday I pray that it goes away. It’s so hard to be like this because people judge you as if homosexuality is the biggest sin and a sin that can never be forgiven, but I don’t believe that, God made me this way for reason, and it is because, He gives us pains, challenges,and obstacles to purify us, to ready us for His Kingdom, and for us to cling on Him alone.It’s so painful at times. being a homosexual is such a pain..But what I know is Jesus loves me, He is my Lord, my Savior, my Rock, my Redeemer.

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s

 
%d bloggers like this: