Conservative Colloquium

An Intellectual Forum for All Things Conservative

Pride in Your Gay Genes?

Posted by Tony Listi on April 27, 2008

Hypothetically, let’s suppose that homosexuality is completely and ineradicably genetic. Let’s suppose that people actually are born gay. The breakdown of the traditional family and our hyper-sexualized society have absolutely nothing to do with it.

Then I have a question: how can homosexuals possibly take pride in their homosexuality?

Typically, we take pride in the things that we personally choose and accomplish. Can one conceive of pride in any other way? We can have pride when we set goals, choose to pursue them, put our best efforts into them, and then, hopefully, succeed. We can have pride in a culture that we choose to identify ourselves with because of the values and beliefs that it upholds. But homosexuality supposedly has nothing to do with this. We are constantly told that homosexuality is not a choice. But no choice means no pride. How can one take pride in one’s genetic makeup? How can one take pride in something that one has/had no control over whatsoever?

Regardless of whether homosexuality is good or bad, if it is genetic, then not only can one not take pride in it, but one should not take pride in it. This is because there is something extremely perverse and dishonest in taking pride in something that one played no role in. Blacks have no reason to take pride in the genes that make them black. Hispanics have no reason to take pride in the genes that make them hispanic. Women have no reason to take pride in the XX chromosomes that make them women. The Nazis had no reason to take pride in the genes that supposedly made them Aryan.

But somehow this conflict between pride and genetics within the so-called “gay rights” movement has been ignored or overlooked.

If homosexuals want to reasonably take pride in their homosexuality, then, at the very least, they should back down from their claims that they were born gay. They need to revert to their previous position that homosexuality really is a choice to have sexual relations with people of the same sex. Like other minorities have done, they need to claim (however absurdly) that homosexuality is a culture, a lifestyle. Otherwise, those gay pride parades can be nothing other than silly, ridiculous nonsense.

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4 Responses to “Pride in Your Gay Genes?”

  1. RM said

    From what I understand, the argument for pride in this situation is based upon reaction to homophobic views. True, I am not “proud” of the fact that I have curly brown hair but -to establish a hypothetical situation that addresses the issue of taking pride in a genetic trait – in the face of people who told me that I was lesser for having such genetic markers I might counter by refusing to accept that I was a lesser person, refusing to feel shame because of other’s opinions, and refusing to change my hair in order to conform to the popular ideal. Pride, in this situation, is therefore not so much an example of taking credit for something that was inherant, but rather the refusal to accept that there should be any element of shame.
    I’m proud to be an American, though I attribute that slip of fate to God’s design rather than any I had a hand it. By your rationale, none of us who happened to be born here, rather than making the decision to go through the process of becoming citizens later in life, should be supported in saying that phrase.
    I understand the basis of your argument, but find it wholly flawed.

  2. foospro86 said

    This is the most thoughtful response to this post that I have received thus far. Well argued, but I think my point still stands unscathed.

    Basically, you are arguing that pride in this case is being used as a defensive weapon against the shame and guilt society (justifiably or unjustifiably) is trying to inflict upon a particular group. Sure, I can understand that and I bet many Catholics and conservatives conceive of their own pride in their Catholicism and conservatism in this defensive, other-directed way against Protestantism and liberalism (heck, I know I think of it in that way sometimes).

    But first of all, I would point out that offense and defense are a matter of perspective. Gay pride parades may seem defensive to some, but I would argue they are very often offensive, that is, meant to attack traditional marriage and sexual morality. Homosexuals are not satisfied with toleration; they want recognition and approval. Thus their agenda is an activist rebuffing of toleration and thus offensive, not defensive.

    I would also point out that a society that is totally shameless cannot last, let alone be peaceful and prosperous. Some acts, behavior, and even sometimes people should be shamed by society and its leaders (not merely government ones). The crucial thing is to know what, when, and how to shame. Moral outrage is a powerful force in society; it should be used and should be used correctly and wisely.

    And there is still something not quite right about this kind of other-directed pride that you are talking about. A pure and healthy pride focuses on the worthy object of the pride itself. It draws upon the essential and integral value of the object in order to defend the object of pride. But what is so valuable and important about homosexuality to make it worthy of pride? Nothing.

    The other-directedness of this pride can also make one lose sight of why one should be proud of the thing in question, if it is even worthy of pride and respect in the first place. If it is not worthy of respect, then this kind of pride just makes things worse, more perverse.
    I mean, brown hair is a silly thing to condemn. But though brown hair is not evil or inferior, it is not worthy of pride or respect either. It is just as perverse to have pride in brown hair as it is to condemn it as evil or inferior! So regardless of whether one is being defensive or not, pride in brown hair or anything else genetically conferred is absurd and perverse. And if homosexuality really is completely genetic, as its defenders insist, then this absurdity and perversity applies equally to it too.

    My logic does not force native-born American citizens to reject their pride in America just because they were born here. Notice what I wrote: “We can have pride in a culture that we choose to identify ourselves with because of the values and beliefs that it upholds.” Thus you, I, and anyone else can still be proud to be Americans, regardless of where we were born, if we choose to accept what America stands for. Pride in a country is not tied to birthplace ultimately. A country is more than the dirt that circumscribes it. This is all the more true for America: http://conservativecolloquium.wordpress.com/2008/04/20/what-it-means-to-be-american/
    There are plenty of people who are born and raised in America who end up hating the country! And the vast majority of them are on the Left and vote Democratic.

  3. foospro86 said

    Because liberalism hates the Founding of America for a variety of reasons, liberal Americans often despise the country that has given them such great opportunities.

  4. jack said

    I too have had issue with the “pride” thing. But like the 1st responder, the pride for me is very much based on the opposition to the shame that we have been told to feel. It is a counter attack yes. And thank goodness for it.

    Also, for me, I am proud of the lifestyle choice I have made. I am proud to have come out, despite every thing around me telling me it could be dangerous to do so. I grew up in a pretty homophobic environment. YES I am proud of taking charge of my life and persuing what I knew would make my happiest, despite the risks. I am proud for the relationships I have built up with my friends and mostly my loving boyfriend who fills me with nothing but joy everytime we are together. I made the choice to be with him (whether being gay is a choice or not – that’s another topic! :)). So I am proud of the choices I have made as a gay man, and am happy to celebrate that at Gay Pride, along with the use of the term as a counter attack. Not to attack family or values, but to attack those who would attack us. You can be gay and value family afterall!

    Here in Brighton England, the gay pride event is frequented by hundreds of straight people and families – it really has become a family day out also. It has the most wonderful feeling – because gay people, gay couples, civil partners and straight people and families are sharing the experience. The straight people do not feel attacked by this so called “pride”. They rejoice in it and share it with us. As you said, it is a matter of perspective, and theirs is one of solidarity with the idea that persecution should be counter attacked – no matter what the basis of persecution. This notion, which I feel my home town of Brighton really embodies, that gay and straight can live side by side, equal, against the attacks of persecution and discrimination, really makes sense to us, and why so many people choose to live here – gay and straight. It’s just such a shame so many people can’t relax and recognise the joy and peace when such a perspective is attained.

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